Mounting

The Chronicles of Descado

Question posted by “Joe” on 4/01/05:

Any special exercises you do for the mount, Mike? Regarding abductor muscles legs, keeping a tight grip, and keeping an opponent from trying to escape like a caught fish on a hook? Any link with the goat riding stance of Wing Chun? (Bent knees of course). Or is the base of the mount a BJJ special, i.e. keeping the superior weight over the opponent, splat like a bug before you can, say, chicken wing?

My response:

The “mount” I was referring to is the standard Brazilian Jujitsu front mount, (also called a full mount), in which you and your opponent are parallel to each other. Given my body type, I prefer the side mount, (in which I would be perpendicular to my opponent), but that’s neither here nor there. The secret to maintaining any top position, is relaxation.

To use an analogy, you wanna be a blanket instead of a table. A table is stiff, and it has four legs. If you lye on your back, and have somebody put a low coffee table on your chest, you can probably extend your arms and push it off rather easily. Because it’s solid, and connected, upending one part of it will upend the whole thing. Contrastingly, if you lye on your back, and have somebody drape a blanket over you, pushing upwards against the blanket won’t do anything. The blanket gives with each of your attempts to “throw” it off.

That’s exactly how a good mount works. You wanna stay totally loose and “flatten out” on your opponent, thus making him bare the entirety of your body weight. If he pushes on your shoulder, your shoulder moves back, but the rest of you stays where it is, exactly like a rag doll.

Most non-grapplers go apeshit when you get ‘em in the mount, so staying relaxed and limp will wear them out in no time, (or cause them to panic, which invariably gives you a “feed” with which you can execute a choke, armbar, etc.). If you can weather the initial storm of them going apeshit, you can then sit up and throw punches or elbows from a relatively safe position.

Now, this doesn’t mean you’re just laying on them. Though relaxed, you’re constantly adjusting your weight to keep yourself stable.

A real nasty way to maintain the full mount is to inch your way up on your opponent’s chest, eventually getting your knees under his armpits. Once you’re there, your opponent is pretty much helpless, because your weight is solely on his chest now, instead of on his chest AND hips, (thus, if he bucks his hips, he’s bucking against air.).

The high chest full mount that I’ve just described is an awesome position from which to reign down punches… or insults… or to let spit dribble out of your mouth in a stream, only to suck it back up just before it touches your opponent’s face.

Again though, relaxation is the key, so I’m not really sure what muscles come into play. It’s ALL muscles, I guess- your whole body. The only respect in which you’re “tight”, is in the fact that you’re leaving NO space between your body and your opponent’s.

Space = mobility, and mobility = escape.

I’m glossing over the fact that there are indeed a set of techniques involved, but the best way to practice keeping somebody in the mount, is to mount somebody and let them do their best to try and escape. The kinesthetic perception you gain from a resisting opponent, (especially and UNtrained resisting opponent), is invaluable, because it’s the only way to develop usable “balance” against combat energy.

Ironically, by the way, a lot of guys in the UFC don’t use the mount to its full potential. They get on top, and BAM!!! They’re throwing leather. Sometimes it works, sometimes they get rolled off. A smart grappler will establish his position first, establish it solidly, and THEN unleash with strikes, (or choke/joint lock attempts).

Hope that helps, and don’t forget to drool on people.

Joe’s reply, posted on 04/01/05 (edited for grammar and spelling and common fucking sense):

The Brazilian Jujitsu guys seem to have an instinct about space and mobility, like area of contact to gain maximum effect. But general grapplers are more “in there”, and area of contact is less dominant compared to BJJ- more a body weight thing. BJJ guys seem to transmit more power per contact area- which is no accident, but an attribute well worth developing. They also seem to transmit to their opponent’s body better than regular grapplers. Maybe BJJ guys use a dummy for this purpose to strengthen the body, and then a live opponent to test all permutations. They absorb what is useful, and then apply JKD spice to it. BJJ guys seem to be like Muay Thai K1 fighters, but on the ground. In willpower and efficiency, they use the same principles regarding the mount, the same area of contact. Employing maximum “will” transference in certain "riding out the opponent" circumstances is vital, because, otherwise, energy is lost by laboring to control the opponent while he is still fresh- same economy of motion with contact area transference of willpower into the mount. A lot must be going on unseen, but the effects can be viewed.

Now, I edited the shit out of this post, (adding words like “employing” and “laboring”, and generally creating sentence structure), but I still don’t know what the fuck this guy was talking about. As such, I replied with this on 04/03/05:

I think you’re making it too complicated, Joe. BJJ guys are grapplers. Grapplers are BJJ guys. There’s too much integration nowadays to say that what someone does is purely Brazilian Jujitsu, or Catch-as-catch-can Wrestling, or Sambo, or even basic Judo. Sure, you’ve got people who ONLY study their respective disciplines, but they invariably come into contact with an ostensibly foreign technique that- while deviating from their “mother” style- is useful, and subsequently incorporated into their repertoire.

As far as developing strength, well, you just can’t focus on that. True, it matters- in fact, it matters a lot. If you put two guys with the same skill in the ring with each other, the stronger guy will usually win, (things like “toughness” also being equal). It’s the way of the world… and nature.

Still, instinctive technique wins fights, doubly so since most finishing holds work on leverage, not strength. Where does instinctive technique come from? It comes from proper instruction and diligent practice. Dwelling on things like “area of contact” and “transmitting of body” is the best way to THINK yourself right out of genuine skill.

JUST TRAIN, MAN!!!

The details you seem so caught up on come together naturally through realistic training. The ability to maintain balance through constant and self-corrective weight distribution, (for example), arrives naturally through merely trying to keep a guy down, while he’s doing his best to get you off of him.

If you do it wrong, you get rolled. If you do it right, you keep your position… and subsequent knowledge grows in this way through trial and error.

The reason you can’t analyze and dissect your way into being a better fighter, is because you’re different than everybody else. What works for you, might not work for me- and visa versa. This is a basic but highly misunderstood maxim of JKD.

If Bruce Lee were alive today, and you were his student, he would train you in technique first, (giving you the proper basics, as it were), and then he would let you discover- through trial and error- what works for you.

If you’re doing something stupid or dangerous, obviously a good teacher will intervene. But the student’s roll is just as important. I could train with my current instructor, [Super Asskicker], for a thousand years, and I’d never be able to fight “like him.” Why? Because I’m not him.

Like any skill, (piano playing, for example), your individual tastes, preferences, strengths, weaknesses, mindset, etc., will have a profound effect on the expression of that skill. As such, you shouldn’t get too caught up on details of foot placement and bone alignment that don’t matter near as much as being able to simply nail a guy, (with YOUR weapon of choice), when you need to. Certainly, learn these things, (conceptually, at least), practice enough to ingrain them into neuromuscular memory, and then forget about them.

In his book “Zen in the Martial Arts”, author/martial artist/former Bruce Lee student Joe Hyams cited a quote that I live by:

“When I first started my art, a punch was just a punch; a kick was just a kick. As my skill grew, a punch became more than just a punch; a kick more then just a kick. Now that I understand my art, a punch is just a punch; a kick is just a kick…”

A punch is just a punch, Joe, a kick is just a kick, a takedown is just a takedown, a finish is just a finish. Given the penchant of martial artists to wax all philosophical about fighting, your attention to frivolous detail is fairly common. But go into any serious boxing club, or a collegiate wresting gym, and you won’t hear guys studying their attributes under a microscope. Have you ever watched an interview with a professional boxer? Man, most of these guys talk like they’re retarded! I GUARENTEE they don’t spend their days contemplating the higher mysteries of the universe. They just get in there and do business.

Simplicity…


				*The Chronicles of Descado* *Mounting*



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		Question posted by “Joe” on 4/01/05: Any special exercises you do for the mount, Mike? Regarding abductor muscles legs, keeping a tight grip, and keeping an opponent from trying to escape like a caught fish on a hook? Any link with the goat riding stance of Wing Chun? (Bent knees of course). Or is the base of the mount a BJJ special, i.e. keeping the superior weight over the opponent, splat like a bug before you can, say, chicken wing? My response: The “mount” I was referring to is the standard Brazilian Jujitsu front mount, (also called a full mount), in which you and your opponent are parallel to each other. Given my body type, I prefer the side mount, (in which I would be perpendicular to my opponent), but that’s neither here nor there. The secret to maintaining any top position, is relaxation. To use an analogy, you wanna be a blanket instead of a table. A table is stiff, and it has four legs. If you lye on your back, and have somebody put a low coffee table on your chest, you can probably extend your arms and push it off rather easily. Because it’s solid, and connected, upending one part of it will upend the whole thing. Contrastingly, if you lye on your back, and have somebody drape a blanket over you, pushing upwards against the blanket won’t do anything. The blanket gives with each of your attempts to “throw” it off. That’s exactly how a good mount works. You wanna stay totally loose and “flatten out” on your opponent, thus making him bare the entirety of your body weight. If he pushes on your shoulder, your shoulder moves back, but the rest of you stays where it is, exactly like a rag doll. Most non-grapplers go apeshit when you get ‘em in the mount, so staying relaxed and limp will wear them out in no time, (or cause them to panic, which invariably gives you a “feed” with which you can execute a choke, armbar, etc.). If you can weather the initial storm of them going apeshit, you can then sit up and throw punches or elbows from a relatively safe position. Now, this doesn’t mean you’re just laying on them. Though relaxed, you’re constantly adjusting your weight to keep yourself stable. A real nasty way to maintain the full mount is to inch your way up on your opponent’s chest, eventually getting your knees under his armpits. Once you’re there, your opponent is pretty much helpless, because your weight is solely on his chest now, instead of on his chest AND hips, (thus, if he bucks his hips, he’s bucking against air.). The high chest full mount that I’ve just described is an awesome position from which to reign down punches… or insults… or to let spit dribble out of your mouth in a stream, only to suck it back up just before it touches your opponent’s face. Again though, relaxation is the key, so I’m not really sure what muscles come into play. It’s ALL muscles, I guess- your whole body. The only respect in which you’re “tight”, is in the fact that you’re leaving NO space between your body and your opponent’s. Space = mobility, and mobility = escape. I’m glossing over the fact that there are indeed a set of techniques involved, but the best way to practice keeping somebody in the mount, is to mount somebody and let them do their best to try and escape. The kinesthetic perception you gain from a resisting opponent, (especially and UNtrained resisting opponent), is invaluable, because it’s the only way to develop usable “balance” against combat energy. Ironically, by the way, a lot of guys in the UFC don’t use the mount to its full potential. They get on top, and BAM!!! They’re throwing leather. Sometimes it works, sometimes they get rolled off. A smart grappler will establish his position first, establish it solidly, and THEN unleash with strikes, (or choke/joint lock attempts). Hope that helps, and don’t forget to drool on people.



		Joe’s reply, posted on 04/01/05 (edited for grammar and spelling and common fucking sense): The Brazilian Jujitsu guys seem to have an instinct about space and mobility, like area of contact to gain maximum effect. But general grapplers are more “in there”, and area of contact is less dominant compared to BJJ- more a body weight thing. BJJ guys seem to transmit more power per contact area- which is no accident, but an attribute well worth developing. They also seem to transmit to their opponent’s body better than regular grapplers. Maybe BJJ guys use a dummy for this purpose to strengthen the body, and then a live opponent to test all permutations. They absorb what is useful, and then apply JKD spice to it. BJJ guys seem to be like Muay Thai K1 fighters, but on the ground. In willpower and efficiency, they use the same principles regarding the mount, the same area of contact. Employing maximum “will” transference in certain "riding out the opponent" circumstances is vital, because, otherwise, energy is lost by laboring to control the opponent while he is still fresh- same economy of motion with contact area transference of willpower into the mount. A lot must be going on unseen, but the effects can be viewed. Now, I edited the shit out of this post, (adding words like “employing” and “laboring”, and generally creating sentence structure), but I still don’t know what the fuck this guy was talking about. As such, I replied with this on 04/03/05: I think you’re making it too complicated, Joe. BJJ guys are grapplers. Grapplers are BJJ guys. There’s too much integration nowadays to say that what someone does is purely Brazilian Jujitsu, or Catch-as-catch-can Wrestling, or Sambo, or even basic Judo. Sure, you’ve got people who ONLY study their respective disciplines, but they invariably come into contact with an ostensibly foreign technique that- while deviating from their “mother” style- is useful, and subsequently incorporated into their repertoire. As far as developing strength, well, you just can’t focus on that. True, it matters- in fact, it matters a lot. If you put two guys with the same skill in the ring with each other, the stronger guy will usually win, (things like “toughness” also being equal). It’s the way of the world… and nature. Still, instinctive technique wins fights, doubly so since most finishing holds work on leverage, not strength. Where does instinctive technique come from? It comes from proper instruction and diligent practice. Dwelling on things like “area of contact” and “transmitting of body” is the best way to THINK yourself right out of genuine skill. JUST TRAIN, MAN!!! The details you seem so caught up on come together naturally through realistic training. The ability to maintain balance through constant and self-corrective weight distribution, (for example), arrives naturally through merely trying to keep a guy down, while he’s doing his best to get you off of him. If you do it wrong, you get rolled. If you do it right, you keep your position… and subsequent knowledge grows in this way through trial and error. The reason you can’t analyze and dissect your way into being a better fighter, is because you’re different than everybody else. What works for you, might not work for me- and visa versa. This is a basic but highly misunderstood maxim of JKD. If Bruce Lee were alive today, and you were his student, he would train you in technique first, (giving you the proper basics, as it were), and then he would let you discover- through trial and error- what works for you. If you’re doing something stupid or dangerous, obviously a good teacher will intervene. But the student’s roll is just as important. I could train with my current instructor, [Super Asskicker], for a thousand years, and I’d never be able to fight “like him.” Why? Because I’m not him. Like any skill, (piano playing, for example), your individual tastes, preferences, strengths, weaknesses, mindset, etc., will have a profound effect on the expression of that skill. As such, you shouldn’t get too caught up on details of foot placement and bone alignment that don’t matter near as much as being able to simply nail a guy, (with YOUR weapon of choice), when you need to. Certainly, learn these things, (conceptually, at least), practice enough to ingrain them into neuromuscular memory, and then forget about them. In his book “Zen in the Martial Arts”, author/martial artist/former Bruce Lee student Joe Hyams cited a quote that I live by: “When I first started my art, a punch was just a punch; a kick was just a kick. As my skill grew, a punch became more than just a punch; a kick more then just a kick. Now that I understand my art, a punch is just a punch; a kick is just a kick…” A punch is just a punch, Joe, a kick is just a kick, a takedown is just a takedown, a finish is just a finish. Given the penchant of martial artists to wax all philosophical about fighting, your attention to frivolous detail is fairly common. But go into any serious boxing club, or a collegiate wresting gym, and you won’t hear guys studying their attributes under a microscope. Have you ever watched an interview with a professional boxer? Man, most of these guys talk like they’re retarded! I GUARENTEE they don’t spend their days contemplating the higher mysteries of the universe. They just get in there and do business. Simplicity… *Tim Tackett's Forum*